Exploring our Mental Health: Anxiety & Bipolar Disorder with George Hofmann

I'm so excited to share this episode with George Hofmann. We talk more about George's book, Resilience: Handling Anxiety in a Time of Crisis, his personal story and the tools that have helped him manage his bipolar over the year. We explore the possible relationship between depression, anxiety and being a Highly Sensitive Person, along with the stigma often associated with mental illness. Finally, we touch upon the benefits, but also the difficulties that often come with mindfulness and meditation practises.


More about George...

George Hofmann has managed to overcome the worst of bipolar disorder by adding practices in focused attention to the usual therapies of medicine and talk.  He works to show others with anxiety, depression and bipolar disorder how to do the same.  

George has conducted workshops on meditation, movement and meaningful work for individuals, families, support groups, churches, healthcare professionals and corporations.  He is the author of the book Resilience: Handling Anxiety in a Time of Crisis. He lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania with his wife, their daughter and two poorly behaved dogs.  

George is available for articles, interviews, speeches, or to conduct workshops for groups or coaching for individuals.  

Stay in Touch with George...

To get in touch, email George at: george@practicingmentalillness.com 

Website: https://practicingmentalillness.com/

Connect with George Hofmann on Linkedin

More about your host, Jules De Vitto...

Jules is a transpersonal orientated coach and educator who is experienced at helping Highly Sensitive People overcome anxiety, stress and burnout. Jules is Highly Sensitive herself and is passionate about helping Highly Sensitive People to step into their authentic power. She lived in Asia for eleven years before moving to London and integrates Eastern practices and modern-day mindfulness into her work.

She has a degree in Psychology, an MA in Education and an MSc in Transpersonal Psychology, Consciousness and Spirituality. She’s a published author through Changemaker Books and John Hunt Publishers and wrote Resilience: Navigating Loss in a Time of Crisis to help people through the Covid-19 Pandemic available here.

You can stay connected with Jules through her...
 
 Website: https://www.highlysensitivehumans.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/highly.sensitive.humans/
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/highlysensitivehumans

Join the 8-week course, 'Step into your Authentic Power as a Highly Sensitive Person' starts October 4th 2021, and is limited to 20 people! Join now!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome, I'm your host, Jules DeVito, and you're listening to the Highly Sensitive Human Podcast, the show that offers an insight into the world of the highly sensitive person. It helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to feel more empowered and resilient without denying their authentic gifts. George has managed to overcome the worst of bipolar disorder by adding practices in focus attention to the usual therapies of medicine and talk therapy, and he works to show others with anxiety, depression, and bipolar disorder how to do the same. George has conducted workshops on meditation movement and meaningful work for individuals, families, support groups, churches, healthcare professionals and corporations. He's the author of the book Resilience: Handling Anxiety in a Time of Crisis. And this book is a part of a series of books, which I'm also part of. My book in the series is called Resilience Navigating Loss in a Time of Crisis. And our books were released back in May to help people through the current pandemic. So the series is still a very valuable resource for people, especially those who are highly sensitive as we navigate this current crisis. So I'd like to welcome George onto the show today.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Thanks, Jules. Good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

So obviously, as I've already mentioned, you are the author of Handling Anxiety in a Time of Crisis. And we'll come more to this, we'll talk more about this book a bit later on. It was part of the Resilience series, which is where I actually met you or how I met you. And you're the um you have your own website, Practicing Mental Illness, which I know provides a lot of resources and articles on meditation and much more to support people through mental illness. So could you just share a bit more about the work that you do and perhaps how it might relate to helping highly sensitive people as well?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Sure. Well, I I have bipolar disorder and I've dealt with this most of my, well, my whole adult life, and went through years of hospitalizations, inability to hold work or relationships. And then years ago, on top of the medication and the therapy that most people with mental illness engage in, I started meditating. And um, ever since I developed this serious meditation practice, I have had no hospitalizations, no real significant episodes of mania or depression. And life has turned around and been pretty fulfilling and pretty good. It applies, you know, my work with people with mental illness is primarily writing and teaching on using meditation as a therapy to supplement the medication and the talk therapy that people undertake and to use it to predict, prevent, and manage episodes of either anxiety, depression, or mania. I think it really overlays and can really help highly sensitive people because you know many of the same things that will drive an episode of anxiety or mania, especially, overstimulation, heightened sensitivity to taste, light, smells, um, racing thoughts, they they I think high sensitivity, anxiety, mania share these things. And so meditation and other therapies that help with one can definitely help with the others as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, absolutely. And so you mentioned bipolar. Um, would you, from your experience and what you know about high sensitivity, would you say that you're highly sensitive yourself?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

That's that's a great question, and I've really considered that. And since with bipolar disorder, mood swing, I would say that sometime uh I'm highly sensitive, and I would meet the definition of highly sensitive. Even now, with my bipolar disorder very well managed, there still are mood swings, and there's there's a swing to a mood called hypomania, which is a very low-grade mania that has, you know, it's high sensitivity to you know, your five senses, overstimulation, thoughts, and a real feeling of exuberance, although with nervous energy. And that seems very similar to what one would define as high sensitivity. So during those periods, I'm definitely a highly sensitive person, but then in other periods, I don't really meet the definition.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Okay, that's so interesting. And I have wondered for a long time what the overlaps between high sensitivity and disorders like bipolar or anxiety and depression might be. And I definitely feel that there's not um a definite distinction. We can't clearly put someone into one category, let's say, and not another. So it sounds like what you're saying is when you're in that state of hypermania, you identify with being very sensitive to your environment and the world around you. So it does seem like there are some overlaps there.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Definitely, definitely. And it it's not only the sensory uh stimulation, but you know, there's there's difficulty in holding relationships, you know, communicating with other people that's not there when I'm not hypomanic. So so yeah, there's some overlap. And there seems to be from some reading I've done in preparation for this podcast, um a more common occurrence of high sensitivity in people with bipolar disorder than there would be in the general population. And I I think it's because we really cross with these hypomanic periods. And also I shouldn't um I shouldn't diminish depressant depression either, because there are definitely overlays between your classic bipolar or unipolar depression and what a highly sensitive person would experience just on just on a day that they would experience their high sensitivity.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Absolutely. And I'm not an expert on bipolar, but I have done a lot of research into it myself because I'm just really curious about mental illness as well. And um it seems that the the definition or the ability to diagnose someone with bipolar is actually quite challenging. Would you say that's correct?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

It's very challenging. Any mental illness is challenging because so much of it is based on self-report by the patient. And with bipolar disorder, you know, mania can mania, hypomania and some phases of mania can be a wonderful experience. I mean, you're really firing on all cylinders, you're at your best, big ideas, grandiosity that'll help you implement your big ideas, uh, wonderful feelings. So people don't go to the doctor when this is happening. However, they will go to the doctor when they're in the depressive phase of the mood swings. So bipolar disorder initially is often misdiagnosed as depression. Treatments for depression often, especially most antidepressants, if somebody has bipolar disorder one, which is primarily manic, whereas bipolar disorder two is primarily depressed. If they have bipolar disorder one, an antidepressant can throw them into serious, even psychotic manic episodes. So there's a real challenge. And from what I've read and my own experience too, it typically takes about 10 years and three to four doctors from that first episode to a correct diagnosis of bipolar disorder and treatment that can really help.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Wow, that's a really long time, isn't it? 10 years to be struggling and then not having a clear diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

It is, and I, you know, I had already been through three hospitalizations before the actual diagnosis of bipolar disorder was was made. And that, you know, that's after some very intense work with psychiatrists and still not not hitting on the the ultimate diagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Right. And so that actually brings me to my next question, which is I'm wondering for you and your journey with bipolar, what has been the biggest struggle? Or if we relate it to the high sensitivity that you mentioned earlier, what's been a struggle for you in terms of yeah, perhaps having this sensitivity to the world around you?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, the the the biggest struggle, oddly enough, because there's been psychosis, I've I've even had suicide attempts and everything. But the biggest struggle was in the self-definition, the feeling that, you know, if if you have diabetes, there's something wrong with your pancreas. And if you have hypertension, it's your blood pressure. But with mental illness or or any kind of mental health issue, there's the sense that there's something wrong with your very self. And just coping with this, the difference from other people, the feeling of alienation, you know, that's been the most difficult part because it's it's odd because we all think differently, and I'm sure we're all wired slightly differently. But once the label's made with some sort of mental health condition, then all of a sudden that person feels separate and there's stigma involved. And that's been the real challenge. The challenge of accepting this myself, dealing with the idea that I, in fact, not my pancreas, not my blood pressure, not my heart, not my lungs, but my very self is sick. And then um being able to overcome that with a self-definition of, I mean, it's it's been like a linguistic definition, but I used to say I am mentally ill. And I would I would think maybe also to say I am a highly sensitive person, it sort of limits you to that specific category of personality. Whereas if I say I have a mental illness, or possibly I have high sensitivity, you can stand apart from that unique aspect of your personality and be a more complete person, as that's just one challenge you have, or one thing that helps define all of you, but just one thing, just one part of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, definitely. And I'm so glad you've mentioned this because it's something I also feel really passionately about. So I've always struggled with uh the stigma attached with mental illness. And as you just just mentioned, when someone says, I am anxious or I am depressed, then it becomes you, it becomes your identity, right? And I feel like there's so many negative connotations, negative associations with yeah, mental illness. And I think it's so unfortunate because obviously it doesn't define us, it shouldn't define us. And I don't think it's fair to put people into boxes and say that is who they are and see it as a weakness. Um, and and this is something I talk a lot about with high sensitivity. Um, often the label highly sensitive can be associated with a weakness or a vulnerability, but I don't see it that way. I actually see it as um a set of traits that give us a lot of positive qualities and traits that we should embrace and celebrate. And actually, I think that is the same, and you can let me know what you think to this, but I think it's the same with depression or bipolar or anxiety. Yeah, there's a lot of struggles that come with it, but there's also a lot of gifts that these people who experience this way of being have. And yeah, what would you say to that from your experience?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, I I definitely agree. I mean, the range of moods and emotions that I've experienced, and other people with bipolar disorder, people with depression. Um, there's there's a certain understanding of emotional experience that's available to a person with those disorders that's not available to somebody that doesn't experience that depth of emotion. So, of course, it can take us to some very bad places, and the goal to manage it is really key. And I get discouraged because, like with bipolar disorder, for instance, mania can be such a seductive and productive state that some people will stop their treatment in order to experience manic episodes just because they like them, but they typically spiral out of control. So we have to balance those benefits we get from those aspects of our personality with the definite danger of not treating them and not managing them well. And um, that's that's an interesting tightrope to walk.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, I can imagine that's extremely challenging, like you said, if you're experiencing that mania and you and you're in a very high uh state or high place to uh not want to continue with that state. That's what you're saying, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, absolutely. Whereas hypomania, the experience I I talked about a little bit ago, that that's different because you don't lose your social functioning and you don't lose um your your really your ability to think well, hold the job, things like that. And I've always kitted with people that if we could bottle that, we'd be billionaires. But unfortunately, it's hard to control, and sometimes it does plunge one into depression or into a more serious manic episode. So, you know, to tempt that is is difficult, although we usually can't control things that well that we can bring it on, but we can sense when it's coming and then you know manage it as we work through it.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So you mentioned uh meditation, and it sounds like meditation has been one of the greatest tools that you've used to help with your mental health. So, could you talk more about that and how it's helped you and perhaps how it might help the people who are listening today?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Sure. The uh I mean the obvious answer to meditation is just stress relief. And so many people meditate for the relaxation and the stress relief. But that's just the tip of the iceberg of what's available to one who meditates. The real benefit to me and the real thing I teach to people when I teach meditation is the relationship we have to feelings in our body, you know, how how those feelings help us predict emotional states, because typically there'll be some sort of physical precursor that precedes any difficulties with emotions, any shifts to anxiety or depression, for instance. You'll feel feelings in your gut or an ache in your shoulder or something. And once you identify these through meditation, you can begin to predict when difficult episodes are coming and then intervene to head off the worst of it. So that predictive capacity is good on the one hand. And then when one's in a challenging episode, again, anxiety or depression or mania, and anything that's emotionally difficult, we find that it's often fueled by our thoughts. We're always talking to ourselves and we're always forming judgment about ourselves, and most of the time they're wrong. But if one's particularly anxious and through meditation can investigate their thoughts, they can see the inaccuracies in this self-definition, in these things we're saying about our situation in ourselves, and then learn how to release those things instead of continuing that conversation we're having, seeing the fallibility of our thoughts, correcting them as we meditate, and just coming back to a centered place where we're not always needling ourselves for our perceived failures or our inadequacies that we don't really possess, but we we we certainly our mind likes to tell us that we do.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Absolutely, and I can definitely relate to that. I've been practicing meditation and mindfulness for quite a long time now, and you know, it just became so apparent to me how many stories my mind is always telling me about my experience, and just having that ability to um observe what my mind is doing and realizing that it's constant, the constant thoughts and the dialogue and the judgment, and um, from my experience, those thoughts or those stories never fully go away, but there's so much power in being able to watch them and see them unfold. Um and you also mentioned the physical body and being able to notice what's going on in the body, and I really appreciate that you said that because I think again that is so powerful that ability to um connect with the sensations in the body, because I feel like we're often so disconnected from the body and we're not aware of what's going on there.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah, we we seem to live from the neck up. It's all it's all in our head, and that's why I get discouraged sometimes of the way people position meditation because they they look at it as an exercise only with thoughts, and unfortunately, some people sell it as all happy, happy and pleasant experience when it's not at all. I mean, we have aches in our body, we have negative thoughts, and meditation can be very difficult. It only gives us exactly what we're experiencing in that moment. And if we're ill at ease, the meditation is going to be challenging. And too many people start meditating, expecting it to be a pleasant, enlightening experience, don't get that, think they're doing it wrong, and then quit, which is really unfortunate because meditation will reflect a lot on what your present experience is. And if you're doing it right, you're going to fully get what you're experiencing right now, not some idealized version of yourself or what you'd like to be. You'll get what is right now in your body, in your mind, and then be able to work with that and really experience that and inevitably accept that.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah, definitely. And with that being said, would you say that sometimes meditation is not the right tool or technique for people to use? Sometimes in some situations, would you recommend people to not meditate?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yes, absolutely. Um, if one is having suicidal ideation, for instance, or is so terribly anxious that they just can't sit still and the room. Illumination of thoughts is really exacerbating the anxiety. In cases like that, to sit in silence and focus on these thoughts will only add to the difficulty and make the thoughts worse and possibly become dangerous. So if a terrible episode is being driven by repeated thoughts, you certainly don't want to sit and focus on those thoughts. You want to do other therapies, which is why I also focus on movement and work. I mean, I say other therapies, of course. If you're if somebody has suicidal ideation, they should call a hotline, get to a doctor, get to a friend, get to a family member, and get help. But other therapies such as movement, anything from running to yoga can help. And it's getting you out of your head and into your body, which is often a helpful experience, or simply work, you know, focusing on something productive can be of equal benefit of meditation without some of the negatives that you can get in meditation if you're really having negative thoughts constantly.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Definitely. And I really appreciate you saying that because I agree. I think mindfulness and meditation are often spoken about as if they are the answer to everything. And they're definitely really, really powerful uh tools. But I know from my personal experience, there are times where mindfulness is not the answer. I need to go for a run, or yeah, as you mentioned, I need to practice yoga or do something more embodied. Um, and I think it's really important for people to be aware of that and not to force themselves to um, I don't know, sit in that stereotypical um mindfulness meditation posture and force themselves to be quiet when maybe that's not the right thing for them at that particular moment in time.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

No, and when you begin is key too, because the the the I guess the benefit of affective disorders like anxiety, depression, or bipolar disorder is that they're episodic. We're typically not in these states all of the time. So to learn meditation, to begin meditation should be done when a person is in a steady state, in a, in a in a more level mood, um, to practice to encounter some of the more challenging moods. If somebody's in the throes of anxiety, I definitely wouldn't suggest starting a meditation practice, then use some other techniques to get through it. And then when things are well, learn to meditate, and then it can help you during a difficult period.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah, brilliant. So I want to talk a bit more about your book, Handling Anxiety in a Time of Crisis. So, as I mentioned earlier, this book is part of the Resilience series, uh, which is um 10 books that were published to help people through the COVID-19 pandemic. And my book is also part of that series, Navigating Loss in a Time of Crisis. And interestingly, I believe there's a lot of overlaps between your book and my book. We both talk about meditation and mindfulness and uh provide practical tools for people to navigate anxiety and uncertainty. And I talk about loss specifically. But would you be able to talk more about your book and what you mentioned in there?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Sure. Um, much of my work previously and and the next book that's coming out is they're really geared towards people with mental illness and dealing with their mental illness. But with handling anxiety in a time of crisis, I I took some of this expertise and some other research and pivoted to create a work for people who aren't typically experiencing anxiety, but maybe having some new, uncomfortable challenges based on the crisis this year. Um, and I'm in the United States. We we've had, of course, COVID, like you've had, we've had all the questions, protests, riots around racial justice, and you know, this election that we've just gone through and still seems to be with some tenacity causing us trouble. Um but so some techniques that have worked for people who have dealt with anxiety through much of their lives, to for people who are experiencing specific anxiety because of this year's crisis or or any event that that may be temporary in their life, for instance, to use these techniques to help them get through it. And in the book, I really focus on two things that that maybe people may be unfamiliar with. And one is the communal aspect of anxiety in a crisis. I mean, it's a shared experience. And it's hard because we deal with anxiety as individuals and suffer as individuals, but in a crisis, the thing we share with everyone, is that we're all having this anxiety. So if we can, through community work, through groups, through friends, through family, you know, come into touch with these feelings and share these feelings, that alone can be a big help. The other thing I talk about is where anxiety, what really seems to cause the anxiety is when uncertainty collides with belief, when things that we are sure of about ourselves or about our community are threatened by situations we did not expect. And so using meditation specifically in these instances to get under what we believe in, how that's threatened by the uncertainty, and you know, where the truth lies. Instead of just the panic of anxiety, but seeing things as they occur, as things that occur to us, but not things that we're guilty of, and not things that are totally out of our control, being able to accept what we can control and work with the things that you know we can modify in order to improve our situation.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Yeah, brilliant. And that does feel so important right now as you explained. There's this communal experience of going through anxiety and uncertainty. There's so much uncertainty, uncertainty right now, and it does feel like people are trying to um understandably grasp onto an element of control or certainty, but but there's there's so much that we are not in control of, and it sounds like you're talking about people finding acceptance for that and doing what they can to ease the anxiety, but knowing that there's a lot that we just can't do. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah, no, absolutely. There's a lot we can't do because things are, I mean, that's that I mean, there's things we can control with the virus, for instance. We can wear a mask, we can socially distance, but still, there's a virus out there, and it's going to get some people, and some of them are going to become very sick, or even my my uncle died of COVID-19. So, you know, it's touched me that way. And yeah, he was doing nothing irresponsible. He he just got it. Um, so that that is there. However, there are things in our lives that we can control as we work through this pandemic, things like wearing the mask or keeping social distance, um, things that can help anxiety that we have definite control over, things like physical fitness or the things we eat and drink. These are things that we can control, and they're things that if we control well in a healthy way, will actually help us ameliorate the anxiety as well. So by controlling the things we can control, we can offset that reaction, and it's a reaction, not a response, that reaction we have to the things that we can't control.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Absolutely. And um, I know this book was not written specifically for highly sensitive people, um, and the resilient series itself wasn't, but I'm wondering how do you think this book could help support those who identify with being highly sensitive?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

I think I think the meditative techniques, because I go through, and it's interesting because you you talked about that classic meditation posture. Yeah, in in the book, I go through standing meditation, I go through walking meditation. I mean, there's other techniques. So somebody can find one that works for them. And I think the meditation techniques can help the person who's highly sensitive. Now, it's it's a challenge to compare, like I like I did in the beginning, hypomania to high sensitivity, because you know, hypomania is debilitating and you want to get rid of it. Whereas high sensitivity, that's that's a factor of one's personality that may pose some challenges, but it can be very advantageous as well. So, what the meditation can do is help one with what they perceive as the negative aspects of their high sensitivity, you know, to accept and to work with them and to be able to shift the focus onto the positive aspects of the high sensitivity, you know, things that really set one aside as an individual and benefit their lives. So, again, that meditation going back to where your thoughts are accurate and where your thoughts are false and your whole sense of self-definition. I think that out of the book more than anything can help someone with high sensitivity because they can accept what they approve, I guess, about their condition. And they can also accept some of the things that are more challenging about high sensitivity and uh move into life in a more secure, in a more accepting and a more comfortable state. So it's the meditative tools, I think, that work with anxiety also translate very well to any uncomfortable feelings that may come up through high sensitivity.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Fantastic. And um, I definitely also believe that to be true. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, I use I use mindfulness on a daily basis. And I'm wondering, because you mentioned different types of uh meditation, so you mentioned walking, sitting. Is there a specific um style that you prefer or you use regularly that you might recommend, or does it vary from person to person?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

I it varies from person to person. I, you know, I typically sit in a pretty classic posture, although with arthritis in my knees as I age, I can't sit cross-legged on the floor anymore. I just sit in a chair, which is fine. But um, I find when I teach a standing meditation, which I go through an example of in the book, but essentially it's just standing still, focusing on the feelings in the body as one stands still. That or a walking meditation, which is not just going out for a walk, it's a very slow, deliberate, heel-to-toe walk, just a few paces ahead, turn around and a few paces back over and over. Those meditations a lot of people appreciate because it helps them come more into their body and deal more with uncomfortable thoughts. Because when you're just seated meditating, all you've got is what your mind is presenting you. Whereas if you're standing meditating or walking meditating, there's balance, there's movement, there's things happening in your body that tend to calm the mind a little more and allow us to more rationally approach some of the difficult thoughts we're having because we're so in our body and really consumed with just standing upright. Which, when you do a long-standing meditation or a walking meditation, it's a miracle. It's a miracle that we can walk it all and just stand upright, given our physiology and the challenges we have, you know, just holding our balance, things that we do every day that we never give a second thought to, things that you can discover when you do these meditations. It's pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, and again, it's bringing us back into the body, isn't it? And that uh more embodied reality, um, which I think I do wonder, yeah, with highly sensitive people or those who feel or experience a lot of anxiety, we might have a tendency to want to disconnect because it can become so overwhelming. Um, so you know, um, I do think there's um also a correlation between addictions and those who experience sensitivity because we might want to numb ourselves or move away from our experience. But what we're talking about is really about moving towards it, even though that can be challenging. Um, it does sound like yeah, those walking, moving meditations can be probably the best thing for people to turn to if they have a lot of anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yes, definitely. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

So obviously, we've spoken about your book, but you mentioned you have another book coming out soon as well. Are you able to talk about that book?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah, that it's it's called Practicing Mental Illness, which is the same as my website.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Um, I've it's it's fun. I've just turned in the manuscript, so it'll be published probably in the fall of 2021. I mean, you you know the experience we had with the Resilience series where we wrote a book in a month and it was published within a month. Um, that was a whirlwind that's not at all typical of publishing. So this is gonna follow a more normal uh cycle and come out sometime in middle or late 2021. But it's called practicing mental illness, and it's specifically about using meditation, movement, and meaningful work to help predict, prevent, and manage challenging moods. So it speaks to people with affective disorders like anxiety, depression, and bipolar disorder, and it speaks to the general public as well in a pretty no-nonsense, realistic approach towards our responsibility to get well, ways to get well, um, ways to cope and ways to really improve and excel with these challenges. So, whereas the uh anxiety book took just a little piece of that, this really expands on that and brings it into a more full, more full self-help book, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Brilliant. That sounds really, really interesting. And I will put the links to your books and your website in the show notes so people can access those easily. And I really look forward to your book coming out. You said in the fall of 2021.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah, that's the schedule. That's the idea that come out then.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

So I'd like to just go back to bipolar and high sensitivity for a moment. So often in the world of high sensitivity, they talk about it as if it's um something we're born with. Um, so it's there's genetic components. So many people, so they say 20% of the population roughly are highly sensitive, and it's something that um is passed through us through our genes, and we're born with these traits. Whereas with bipolar, from what I understand, this is something which develops through life, and it might be because of your lived experiences. Um could you talk maybe a bit more about that from your perspective? As in, do you think it is something that develops, or is it something that you potentially are predisposed to?

SPEAKER_00 39:36

There's definitely a genetic component. They can see it run through families, and you know, science is beginning to maybe identify genes, although we're still a ways away from that. But there is a predisposition to bipolar disorder.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

However, my two brothers and my sister are do not have bipolar disorder, but I do. So there's there's usually some stress event at some point. It can be physical trauma, it can be something psychological, but something precipitates the expression of the genes and develops into bipolar disorder. And this typically happens in late adolescence or early adulthood. Um, that's when all of the affective disorders seem to rise up and begin to affect a person. Uh, so high sensitivity, that's something, of course, that you could experience through youth as a child. Whereas something like bipolar disorder, even though there is a strong genetic component, it doesn't really express itself until somebody's in their late teens or early 20s typically.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Okay, thank you for explaining that. Um, I think it's really interesting because I also believe that with high sensitivity, even though, yeah, it's probably something we're born with, I do remember as a young child um being very sensitive to the world around me, and it's something that I've always experienced, but I also believe it's um the environment that we're in which causes these traits to um develop or grow. And so I think it's probably the same as you're explaining with bipolar or anxiety or depression, there has to be some kind of event or trauma which activates that almost or triggers it.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah, and and colors it too, I guess. Because I mean, these things like we talked about before, and and so much of high sensitivity can be such a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Everything from creativity to empathy. Um, but but I guess experiences we have in our life can can color those things as positives or negatives, depends depending on what happens as we develop.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned earlier about uh feeling feeling isolated or feeling different uh from let's say the mainstream way of being in the world, and I know that's a really common experience for people who are highly sensitive, that there's a sense of being different or not fully fitting in uh with the rest of society and always almost lacking a sense of belonging. So, yeah, again, would you say that's perhaps an overlap there with bipolar and uh those who are highly sensitive?

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Absolutely, and it's it's interesting because the the word we come to often is alienation, and um that's it's a very old word in the English language, and um it it goes back to the roots put together where it means to be separated from one's God, so that sense is so deep in us that it's a complete separation, not only from other people, but possibly from things we believe in. So, whether it's high sensitivity or whether it's bipolar disorder, you know, dealing with that sense of being so different, so separate, so other is something that we really have to work on, I think, and come to terms with in order to feel more a part of our culture in our society.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah, definitely. And I I think that's why community is so important. Um, you know, I know through the work you're doing, it's educating people and bringing people together to share their lived experiences, right? And I think just by you sharing your lived experience. It's so helpful for other people to feel that sense of, oh, I'm not alone, I'm not the only person going through this. And I just think that's so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

And we have this strange dichotomy going on now, don't we? Because community is so difficult because we're so limited in who we can get out and mix with and have a real social relationship. Whereas on the other hand, um, this whole virtual world has opened up. I could do a session with you, and I'm sitting in Philadelphia, and you're in the UK, and we, you know, we never would have met each other if not for the whole coronavirus pandemic and this virtual possibilities and capabilities. So whereas community becomes difficult in the in-person sense, it really opens up to us in ways suddenly that we never thought of before with people around the world. So it's it's there are people who are similar, and there are people who can help if only we look for them.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Yeah, and I think that's such a good reminder because I definitely feel, yeah, there is this, as you mentioned, this contrast in terms of feeling quite isolated and disconnected from people and you know, missing friends and family that we're not able to see at the moment. But then at the same time, yeah, we're able to connect in such amazing ways and really, yeah, bring those communities together right now.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

So we're coming close to the end here, and I'm just wondering, is there anything else um you feel we haven't spoken about you'd like to mention in terms of your work or bipolar, uh, highly sensitive people?

SPEAKER_00 45:59

The the only thing that I really focus, especially in the new book, is the sense of responsibility. Um we should not feel responsible for these mental health challenges we have. I mean, it's not my fault that I have bipolar disorder. Um, even someone with addiction, you know, the fact that they've become addicted to a substance. Yes, they made the choice when they first took it, but it's not their fault they became addictive. So we don't have responsibility in becoming the in developing the challenges that we may have, but we do have complete responsibility in overcoming them, in living a healthy life, in developing techniques to manage well and be productive and have good relationships. So we should release ourselves from the self-blame of any deficiencies we perceive in our personalities or our emotional state, but accept the responsibility to really improve and work well with ourselves and with others.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Yeah, definitely. And again, I really appreciate that because it reminds me of something I talk a lot about, which is moving away from this victim mentality. It can be very easy to become a victim to, let's say, um, as we spoke about earlier, the label that you attach yourself to. Um so you know, if you say, Yeah, I'm I'm depressed, I'm suffering with depression, then you can easily become a victim to that and get stuck. You get stuck in that uh that cycle of becoming that. But what what you're talking about, and I believe what I also um relate to is this idea of stepping into our power and knowing that we do have a choice to um yeah, change the way we live and experience the world and and see the gifts behind what we're going through.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Certainly. Certainly. We face individual challenges, but just like we talked about the language, you know, I am versus I have, you know, the challenges we have help form us, but they're just pieces of our personality and pieces of what we have to offer to the world. So a victim would be someone who completely identifies with the challenge. Whereas if we realize that's just part of us and we can move into our power, then we can become a more full, more satisfied person, more productive and more able to help others, and certainly not a victim at all.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

And I think that is a great place to end today. So thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Thank you, Jules. This was wonderful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

And I'm just wondering where can listeners go to find out more about your work and the resources that we've mentioned here today, is there anywhere in particular?

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Well, I write a lot and there's a lot of me out there. But um, practicing mental illness, which is my my main site, just practicing mental illness.com, has information about me, my books, and links to on a media page to most of what I've written or recorded and things that are out there. So practicing mental illness would be the place to find me. There's a newsletter as well that goes out weekly, so one can sign up for that on that site as well.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Brilliant. And again, I will put the link to your website and to your books in the show notes so people can access those easily. So thanks again. It's been a pleasure talking to you today.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Thanks, Jules. This was great.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Thanks for joining me this week on Highly Sensitive Humans. Make sure to visit my website, highly sensitivehumans.com, where you can subscribe to the show and find out more about my upcoming workshops, my online eight-week course, and where I also offer one-to-one coaching for highly sensitive people. If you found value in the show today, I'd really appreciate a rating. Or if you'd simply share this episode with your friends or other highly sensitive people, that would help support this podcast.