Highly Sensitive Humans Podcast
The Highly Sensitive Humans Podcast offers insight into the world of the Highly Sensitive Person, and helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to feel more empowered and resilient without denying their authentic gifts.
Highly Sensitive Humans Podcast
The Highly Sensitive Person and Lucid Dreaming with Lana Sackwild
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In this episode, I speak with Lana Sackwild, Transpersonal Lucid Dreaming and Lucid Living Coach about the power and potential behind lucid dreaming as a tool for our growth and transformation. Lana and I both have a background in transpersonal psychology, and we share a love for everything related to dreams, creativity and helping others to transform, heal and step into our fullest potential.
We discuss the relationship between high sensitivity and the common experience of vivid and often intense dreams. We explore how those of us who are highly sensitive can utilize the tools of lucid dreaming to help us overcome our struggles in day-to-day life and Lana shares her experience of doing this since she was a young child.
More about Lana…
After 20+ years of experimentation with lucid dreaming & graduating with an MSc in consciousness, spirituality, and transpersonal psychology, Lana now works as a successful transpersonal lucid dreaming and lucid living coach. She has dedicated her life to helping people redefine and reconnect to their purpose and awaken their unlimited potential. Her award-winning research project is on the healing and transformative potential of lucid dreaming for mitigating depression.
Stay in Touch with Lana...
Website: https://www.lanasackwild.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lanasackwild/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/getlucidwithlana/
More about your host, Jules De Vitto...
Jules is a transpersonal orientated coach and educator who is experienced at helping Highly Sensitive People overcome anxiety, stress and burnout. Jules is Highly Sensitive herself and is passionate about helping Highly Sensitive People to step into their authentic power. She lived in Asia for eleven years before moving to London and integrates Eastern practices and modern-day mindfulness into her work.
She has a degree in Psychology, an MA in Education and an MSc in Transpersonal Psychology, Consciousness and Spirituality. She’s a published author through Changemaker Books and John Hunt Publishers and wrote Resilience: Navigating Loss in a Time of Crisis to help people through the Covid-19 Pandemic available here.
You can stay connected with Jules through her...
Website: https://www.highlysensitivehumans.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/highly.sensitive.humans/
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/highlysensitivehumans
Join the 8-week course, 'Step into your Authentic Power as a Highly Sensitive Person' starts October 4th 2021, and is limited to 20 people! Join now!
About the Host: Jules De Vitto is a transpersonal coach, trainer and experienced educator for Highly Sensitive People. She helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to navigate emotional overwhelm, step into their authentic power and align with their true purpose in life. She is a published author and wrote one of a series of books on Resilience, Navigating Loss in a time of Crisis. Her research has also been published in the Transpersonal Coaching Psychology Journal and Journal of Consciousness, Spirituality, and Transpersonal Psychology.
You can stay connected with Jules through...
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The Highly Sensitive Human Academy™ - join our 3-month professional training: coaching Highly Sensitive People
Welcome, I'm your host, Jules DeVito, and you're listening to the Highly Sensitive Human Podcast. The show that offers an insight into the world of the highly sensitive person and helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to feel more empowered and resilient without denying their authentic gifts. So, welcome everyone, and I'm so excited to have Lana Sackwald on the show today. So, Lana is a British lucid dreaming and lucid living coach, and she is also a scientific researcher with a degree in consciousness, spirituality, and transpersonal psychology. So she's dedicated her life to helping people redefine and reconnect to their purpose and awaken their unlimited potential. So her award-winning research project is on the healing and transformative potential of lucid dreaming for mitigating depression. So, welcome Lana. I'm so excited to have you on the show today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited as well.
SPEAKER_01So, obviously, we've known each other for quite a few years. So we studied our masters together in consciousness, spirituality, and transpersonal psychology. And yeah, we we've been in regular contact since then. And um, yeah, I'm really inspired by your work, which is all about dreaming, lucid dreaming, helping people to use lucid dreams to manage things like depression, anxiety, and be successful entrepreneurs as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you so much. Um, I feel exactly the same about you. And um, when you started up kind of your niche with highly sensitive people, um, I just thought that was fascinating. And I don't know why it's not, you know, a bigger topic that people talk about. So I'm really excited that you're creating this platform for more people to talk about it.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Yeah, and today I'm really excited because we're going to talk about the relationship between high sensitivity and dreams. Um, and dreams have always been a huge interest to me, and they they've definitely played a big part in my life over the years. So we'll definitely talk more about dreams in a moment, but first I just wanted to ask you: since this podcast is about highly sensitive people, do you consider yourself to be highly sensitive?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great question. And I feel like um, you know, probably like a lot of people, when I first thought about, you know, the topic of like, am I a highly sensitive person? I had those thoughts come up of like, well, no, because I'm quite resilient and that kind of thing. But then actually um using your website and the quiz and stuff like that, and going through the characteristics of a highly sensitive people, a highly sensitive person, I realize that I do actually just tick like all the boxes of an HSP. Like I definitely process things on quite a deep level. Um, I'd say my nervous system is pretty sensitive. Like at the moment, I'm alcohol-free, sugar-free, marijuana-free. I take in very little caffeine. Uh, I'd say I'm pretty um empathic and sensitive to my environment. Uh I'm definitely someone who's obsessed with, you know, deep, meaningful relationships. I have a pretty strong sense of purpose with my life and my business. And so it was really interesting for me to look through the characteristics of an HSP and kind of realizing that in our society we somewhat look down on saying that sensitivity is like a weakness. And actually, in these cases, I'd say it's so much of a strength, and that I'd definitely form much stronger connections with people who do classify as highly sensitive people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, brilliant. And I really appreciate you saying that in terms of I agree, there's so many misconceptions about what it means to be highly sensitive. And you mentioned the word resilient. Um, that's obviously something I talk a lot about in my work. Um, but I yeah, I believe that just because if if if you're sensitive, it doesn't mean that you're not resilient. It's just um about learning how to be in the world and also aligning with uh a lifestyle that matches who you are. So you mentioned not drinking, no sugar, no drugs. And I think that's really important as well, just being aware of how your body responds to things that you put in your body as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's strange because it's one of those things that actually I'm really thankful for the pandemic in that way, because I think it did make me pay attention to things that my system is sensitive to, and all of those things that we just listed came up for me this year, and yeah, maybe that was part of it, you know, taking the time to slow down and think about uh what effects those kind of substances do have on my mind and on my body, and and so that's been a huge exploration for me this year, and I'm sure for lots of other people that classify as HSPs as well, and people in general, I think, you know, a lot of my friends have um made massive changes to their lifestyle this year. Um, and so it's been really interesting to see what different people are doing and and what their bodies are kind of highlighting for them.
SPEAKER_01Definitely, I can definitely relate to that, and I would I would agree that's been one of the positives of the current situation we're in. Yeah, yeah. So I'm wondering, can you share a bit more about the work that you do in terms of lucid dreaming and also how you think it could relate to those people who are listening today who are likely to be highly sensitive as well?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. So um I'm a lucid dreaming and lucid living coach, and definitely still a practitioner as well, always learning, always growing. Um, but a lot of the work that I do uh really starts with just processing information that's held within our dream space. So I think a lot of what dreams are just you know um scenarios that we're taking from our waking life and then processing whilst we sleep. So our dreams are often full of you know our fears, our desire uh desires, or we go through um rehearsal for different things, like if you have an important meeting or a test, that kind of stuff. Um, and I work with dreams initially in five main kind of foundational categories. So explore the different dream characters, emotions that come up, environments, different objects or actions that we're taking in the dream space. And then I use those to help people come up with really personalized triggers for getting lucid, which in the most simple terms, a lucid dream is just a dream where you're inside the dream and you're aware that you're dreaming. So you can then kind of wake up inside your dream and start working with any of these things. So, you know, a really simple example of that would be say you're someone who always dreams about a particular person from your high school, or you seem to have a lot of anxious dreams or high-level anxiety situations. So you could then start working with those particular triggers, um, you know, asking characters what they represent, or asking the dream what particular situations represent for you, a ton of different questions. And after that, the the lucid living element is really kind of bringing back that wisdom or knowledge or call to action that the dream is trying to share with you and embodying that in the waking state. So I think that you know, rewiring how we feel about a certain situation or analyzing it is much easier to do once you've kind of practiced it in that safe dream environment. So, you know, working with anxiety or going through a high anxiety situation in waking life can be really difficult. But if you're doing it in the dream space and you're lucid and you're aware that you're dreaming, you know that there's kind of no actual consequences because it is just a dream. So sometimes it's helpful to kind of rehearse something in the dream space first, and it then makes it easier to do whilst you're awake. So I guess um that's kind of a short overview, but I think it would be really useful for any highly sensitive person who does want to explore in a safe environment a bit more how they maybe process information or their relationship with different people in the outside world. Um, it's also just a great place for you know intense relaxation. Um, lots of highly sensitive people do deal with, you know, um overwhelm or burnout, or we're we're processing a lot throughout the day. So sometimes just using the lucid dream space to you know take a vacation or go to the beach or fly around and get that release and relaxation and a bit more freedom, you know, our lives can be another um great benefit of dream work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's brilliant. And it's so it's so fascinating. And I was actually wondering, um, do you think from your experience, is it difficult to become lucid? Is it something which um I get I guess it varies from person to person, but it is it something you can do quite quickly, or does it take a long time to learn that skill?
SPEAKER_00Um it really, yeah, like you said, it varies person to person, but surprisingly, I think um the current stats are that about 50% or yeah, most of the population, um, I think it's 50% of people will have um spontaneous lucid dreams at least once in their life. So a lot of people I speak to when I start telling them about lucid dreams, they're like, oh yeah, you know, I've definitely had those dreams before where I was kind of aware that I was dreaming, but I didn't really do anything about it. So that's kind of that low-level lucidity. But then yeah, I think it is actually, you know, it's a learnable skill. So it's something that if you do want to try it out, um, most of the people I've worked with within the first kind of week or a couple of weeks have been able to induce a lucid dream. Some people it's that same night. Um, it obviously varies depending on, you know, your how passionate you are about it. I kind of compare it to a sport. So, you know, like if you wanted to learn to play tennis or something, um you're gonna be a great tennis player if you're reading about it, really excited about it, and you're working with a coach or you're, you know, putting into practice the things you need to do to become a better tennis player, um, versus just kind of being interested in it, but not going to practice and and not, you know, putting in the daily work for it. So I think lucid dreaming is kind of the same. Like if you do the practices and if you put in the effort, then you'll see the fruit from that. Um, and it will be quite easy to get lucid, but it definitely does require, you know, some conscious energy and a bit of work to do it. Um, but then again, there's some people that it just happens to them all the time, and I guess I'd say it's probably more likely for a highly sensitive person to be good at lucid dreaming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that actually brings me to the next question, which I wanted to ask. Um, because um for myself, I have always been fascinated by dreams, and I've always had very vivid dreams, and there have been a few points in my life where I've had lucid dreams, um, never to the point where I've been able to be conscious enough to control or manipulate my environment, but I've been aware that I'm dreaming within a dream, and um I've also had a lot of I would say pre-cognitive dreams, so I seem to be able to pick up on things that are about to happen, especially emotionally charged events. And I've always related to this to being um very empathetic or being a highly sensitive person. There seems to be a connection there, and I remember recently sharing on my Instagram about um I asked um if people have a lot of dreams being highly sensitive, and the response was quite strong. So um, yeah, from your experience, do you think there is a connection between, let's say, people who who are very sensitive and an ability to to have strong dreams or or lucid dream?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I definitely think so. I think you know, one element is that um highly sensitive people seem to have quite vivid imaginations. And like you said, maybe that leads into having more vivid dream content and just in general being more open to processing information. Um, and I think you know, being highly sensitive, coming back to that term of uh sensitivity not being a weakness and actually it being something that's usually in connection to you know high creativity and being really in touch with your emotions. And I think emotions in dreams are heightened. So that's one thing that I think is really useful to trigger lucidity is particular emotions. So one of the techniques that I use with a lot of clients is pinpointing an emotion you want to work on in the waking state, and then attaching that to a kind of trigger or bringing in more conscious awareness around it. And so then by doing that whilst you're awake, when you're dreaming and that emotion comes up, you start thinking about um these lucidity triggers like where am I right now? Um, how am I feeling? Looking at the environment. Um, and then you're oftentimes uh connecting that emotion to a trigger enables you to get lucid because that emotion comes up in a heightened space, uh, place in the dream space. So that's a really great, you know, emotions are a really great lucidity trigger. Um, and the other reason is I think you know, a lot of highly sensitive people, we can be overwhelmed and um so we kind of prefer having more sleep in general, I think just to rejuvenate. And I think ironically, we can also find it quite difficult to sleep if a lot is on our mind. So um, some of the things I coach in are on you know, morning routines and evening routines, how to wind down, how to create a good sleep environment, and how to have really good sleep hygiene if we are quite sensitive people. So it just those two factors in general, like if you're getting a lot more sleep, if you are creative and sensitive to emotions and processing information, and if you are someone who's you know passionate about what you do, I think all those kind of things are the perfect combination for um inducing a lucid dream.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And I think that is a really good point. I do know a lot of sensitive people that need a lot of sleep, and I I know that I do as well. Uh so definitely any excuse to be able to sleep more sounds like the perfect thing. Um so I'm curious what um got you into this work. Um, how where where did it come from? Where did your passion for lucid dreaming and coaching others to do the same stem from?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, I I actually started lucid dreaming when I was a child, um, really young, about um four years old, and it actually came about through childhood nightmares, and that's quite a common thing uh that happens to children. And obviously at the time I didn't know what lucid dreaming was, but I would have these kind of uh you know Disney villain-esque nightmares, and um I remember one day just think I was watching um CITV, which is quite a British uh TV show for kids, and it's kind of got all different cartoons and that kind of stuff. And I remember thinking, um, you know, the next time I have a really scary dream with a monster or that kind of thing, I'm just gonna pretend that everything's a cartoon and it won't be as scary. And so one of my dreams where I started having this nightmare, um, that kind of triggered my mind to come up with like the CITV button as a the the like logo of it as a button. And I pushed that and everything turned into cartoon, and I found it really, really funny and it was no longer scary. And so that's originally how I kind of got started with it. Um, just with the thought of being like the next time you know a negative thing happens to me in my dream, I'm gonna recognize that I'm dreaming and I'm gonna change it. And that is that kind of as simple as that thought is, uh, can trigger lucidity. And so I guess it started from there and and I used it throughout my childhood and my teenage years. Anytime I had a problem or um, you know, things that I didn't want to experience in nightmares and that kind of thing, or um depression, anxiety, all those kind of emotions to start working with them uh in my dream space, realizing that I could kind of rewrite the dreams and and start doing it in the way that I want to do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's really, really, really interesting. And as you were talking, I started thinking, you know, in a way, this is very symbolic for our lives in general, right? Because you're talking about this ability to rewrite our dreams and rewrite, I guess, the script and the outcome. And it seems what you're saying, and from what you said before, is that if we can do that in our dreams, then we realize that we can also do that in our day-to-day lives as well.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yes. I think you know, a lot of what really drives me with this work is sharing that with people, you know, sharing that um we can redefine and reconnect to our purposes and we can awaken to this like unlimited potential that is within us and kind of step into the shoes of the creator of our lives rather than think. Just you know, being passive and and everything just happening to us. Like we do have an input in our lives and what we want to happen and the outcomes that we're striving for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And again, I think this is um such an important message for those who identify with being highly sensitive because this again is something I talk a lot about, but in terms of moving away from potentially being a victim to something and stepping into your power and your ability to um yeah, use your gifts and your strengths to yeah, manifest what you want in your life or how you want your life to look. So that feels like a really, really important message.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I think you know, I I am passionate about sharing it because I know what it feels like to feel lost or stuck or uncertain and frustrated with things. And I I now know you know what it feels like to be able to live lucidly and feel in alignment and feel that you have um an abundance of gifts and um magic almost using the lucid dream space and being able to harness lucidity in my sleep helps me wake up and take action and achieve the results that I want. And I think you know, seeing so many people struggle who really don't just deserve to struggle as much as they are, and it's often, like you said, the highly sensitive people who are the most caring, kind, compassionate people, and the ones that are really empathetic to others and put others before themselves and kind of like the cleaner-uppers of mess and the rocks of families, but that can come with a lot of stress, anxiety, depression, and so yeah, helping people like that start realizing that they can really dream big and you can put yourself first, and it's not selfish, and it is about you know filling your own cup and and having much more to pour out into others that really helps, and and just being more conscious yourself personally and and working on yourself first helps us, I think, just flourish and and then it helps other people, and it's kind of that domino effect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And um, I want to ask you more about uh your research actually, because you mentioned depression a moment ago, and I know that you did your research when you were studying your master's in transpersonal psychology on the relationship between lucid dreaming and overcoming depression. I hope I said that right. Um so would you be able to share a bit more about that research and perhaps what you found from it? Obviously, that's a big question, but even if you could share a little bit of your research and what came from that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Um, I was really surprised that there wasn't really any research or um directly on um the transformation and and the potential that lucid dreaming has to help people mitigate depression because it was something that I used so often. Um and so yeah, I was curious about how many other people used lucid dreaming for mental health and for depression in particular. And so that's what I based my research project on. And I was shocked, you know, when I sent out a survey to start uh finding participants within the first 24 hours, I had um over a hundred responses. Wow that yeah, that um, you know, they'd had depression and that dream work was something they'd used to help them work through it. And so I I for my project, I started um interviewing people on exactly what they were doing in the lucid dream space to help them work through depression, and there were so many different ways that people worked through it, which was really cool because you know there isn't one, I think you know, depression isn't one set thing, and we talk about it as if it's the same for every person, and it's really not, and so I think it was great to see so many different approaches to it versus I guess the standard Western approach, which is you know, take some antidepressants and hopefully it helps you, and seeing the statistics of how often antidepressants don't help people because one, uh a lot of the time it's just not a match for that person and their depression in particular, and two, you know, antidepressants are kind of like that band-aid effect where yeah, they might help you feel a little bit better throughout the day, but ultimately they're not getting to that origin of the depression really. Um, and so it's just gonna keep cycling. And um, yeah, it was interesting to see how people would get lucid and actually try to get to that origin of the depression. So, again, you know, speaking with different dream characters, exploring different emotions that came up for them, um, and and that kind of empowerment side of it too, you know, recognizing that they are the creator of their reality in in some aspects and that they can um, you know, have a bit more control over their life and and the outcome of things. Um, it also went into a lot of self-development, you know, using the dream space to practice different things, like if it was social anxiety, you know, practicing um speaking with different people and working on relationships, um, people who were depressed in a in an emotional way would um use different techniques like asking the dream space, something like, let me uh experience myself feeling happy. And actually having that experience inside the dream helps you then um I guess have that emotion filter through into the waking state. Like sometimes you just haven't felt happiness in so long, it's kind of like you forget what it feels like. But just as how you know we can have a dream and you suddenly in your childhood home and it's really vivid and you can see everything, it's the same with emotions. So actually asking for particular emotions and requesting things and then really embodying that um help people kind of get excited about their lives again and and start thinking about yeah, what is my purpose? What are my passions? If I didn't have um these everyday blockages with like money, finances, waking life stresses, like what would I want to do? Um, and so sometimes even just yeah, like flying around and feeling that freedom or taking a break or doing something fun in the dream space is enough to help you wake up feeling a bit more energized and positive about your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, again, I just think that's such an incredible message because what you're saying is that um it's about moving away from the idea that let's say depression is quote unquote an illness that we can fix by, as you describe, putting on a band-aid or something to cover that wound. But you're saying that through lucid dreaming, we can actually go inwards and empower ourselves to to find the answer, to find the solution or get to the root cause of what the depression is about, right? And we're doing that internally instead of looking to an outside source to find the solution.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's it's a lot of internal work and and um it just seemed to be really a powerful thing for for a lot of people. Um I'm really not doing it justice speaking about it now, but um, I will be publishing uh the paper that has all the different examples of different methods um all the participants used uh next year, hopefully in April kind of time. So brilliant. Um yeah, I'm looking forward to sharing more of the actual research and the science behind it and all of that stuff um very soon.
SPEAKER_01Oh, brilliant. That's really exciting. And uh have you ever thought about a book as well?
SPEAKER_00Could there potentially be a book in the future? Definitely. I think it would be a fascinating book. And and again, with the research project, you know, I had to limit myself with word count and that kind of thing. So while I'm doing it, that's definitely what was on my mind. It's like we need several books about so yeah, 100%. It's definitely um something that I'd I'd like to put out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, brilliant. I look forward to reading it when it comes out. And um do you have a specific uh tool or tip which let's say the listeners now could go away and use to help them become lucid? So I'm thinking that just by having this conversation, I'm wondering if tonight when I go to sleep I'm gonna have some vivid dreams or even potentially come become lucid myself. Is there anything you could say that someone could try that would only take them a few minutes to help them achieve that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think um again, like going back to those foundational uh kind of categories that I work with. So actually, you know, if you start off by writing down your dreams um and then looking through them and seeing, you know, like what are the recurring characters, emotions, environments, objects, actions that come up. And oftentimes we'll find one of those things in our dream space that um, you know, don't occur in our in our waking life. So you say it's again like a high school character or some someone from your past who keeps popping up, um, that would be a really great trigger. Obviously, you don't see them in your waking life, so it's kind of pulling out something about that person, like say they're uh someone who has red hair. Well, then in your waking life, um, whenever you see someone with red hair, just kind of pausing to think about uh, you know, like where am I right now? Who am I with? How am I feeling? Could this possibly be a dream? And taking a moment to bring in that awareness. Um if you keep doing that with one particular dream trigger, then eventually that comes into your dream space. So then the next time you see someone with red hair or something in your dream, you ask yourself those questions and then you realize, like, oh my god, yeah, this is so and so from high school, like I'm definitely dreaming. That's like a really um quick kind of personalized way to uh start picking out dream triggers. But I guess, yeah, the step one is really, you know, writing down your dreams and kind of looking at what are the recurring themes that keep popping up for you.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And and once you're able to do that, is it quite common to wake up once you realize you're dreaming, or it is it difficult to stay asleep?
SPEAKER_00It varies person to person. Sometimes you can be like really, really excited and be like, oh my god, it's happening, and that can wake you up, which can be quite frustrating because you're like, oh, I just did it, and then I woke myself up. So um I often encourage people to kind of add on um an emotional grounding technique to that. So when you've gone through those categories of like, where am I right now? Who am I with? Could I be dreaming? Um, just like taking a couple of deep breaths and really calming yourself down to the end of that helps you uh stabilize the dream. So if you are lucid, like the first things you do instead of being like, oh my god, what do I do? I'm lucid dreaming, is actually just um grounding yourself a little bit more. And that usually helps you come up with a better um, you know, start to the dream in general.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I imagine if you also practice that in your waking life as well, that's gonna help and transfer into your dreaming life. So just practicing a lot of grounding and mindfulness techniques on a daily basis, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, bringing in a bit more awareness to throughout your day-to-day waking life, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. Well, I'm I'm really hoping tonight that I'm gonna have a lucid dream. I'm gonna practice and see what happens.
unknownSounds great.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting because I do keep on having a lot of recurring dreams at the moment. Um, a lot of dreams and and nightmares uh where I'm being chased or I'm running away, and I dream a lot about keys and doors locking, and I'm really wanting to be able to become lucid in that recurring dream so I can start to work with that material. So this is definitely something I'm interested in doing as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those are like those perfect little triggers as well, especially the really intricate things like doors or locks. And so it's a really easy way to be like, okay, every time, you know, I lock my front door or every time I'm leaving my house, I'm just gonna take a minute to think through those things and be like, yeah, again, like where am I right now? What am I doing? Could I be dreaming and kind of ground in whether you find yourself in the dream or outside the dream, just kind of taking a moment to do that before you leave the house or when you lock your door can be really empowering as well, kind of deciding like who do I want to be as I step out of my house or step into my house.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Brilliant. So um we've spoken a lot about things like anxiety, depression, overwhelm, and obviously lucid dreaming. And I know I've read myself, I've read a lot of books over the years about dreams and yeah, anxiety, depression. Do you have any books or any resources that you would recommend to people that might be able to help them in terms of looking at the relationship between dreams and let's say their mental health?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think um something I like to use is um really working with um rewriting scenarios. So um something that helped me a lot in the past is if you have those things that um where a lot of us just kind of like replay situations in our minds. So if we're really stressed about something or anxious about something, we kind of start replaying it as this awful like daydream kind of situation. Um sometimes even things, you know, from like years and years ago that you just hold in your body like a really embarrassing situation that happened to you, and then it keeps coming up and coming up. So I decided with this work to just be like I've had enough of that, like I really want to, you know, do something about it. Um so one of the really simple tools that I use is um I just write out the whole situation as it is, um, just everything in full about it, uh, as if it was like a dream. And then after I've gone through that, I decide to rewrite it for how I want it to be. So either, you know, changing the scenario or um just rewriting it where you're in a more empowered state, and maybe you said the right thing or you did the right thing that ended up not being embarrassing or making you feel anxious or whatever it is. Um, so that's a great thing that you can just do in your waking state, and then obviously the kind of step two to that is um getting lucid and actually rehearsing it. So, you know, even if it's a really stupid thing, um, like one of the ones that I did uh was I found that I'd always get really anxious um or stressed out when I was ordering food from stores where it's kind of like that um subway situation, you know, where you're like behind the glass and you've got to kind of build your meal or that kind of thing. I would start feeling really anxious about, you know, taking too much time to work out what meal I wanted to put together or like getting my money out and um you know, feeling like you're making people behind you wait or you're annoying the server if you're not doing it the right way. Just really like you know, it's not like a serious thing, but I found that it really bothered me. So I started writing out those situations where it was happening, and then I decided to get lucid and just put myself in that situation, but be in that empowered state and be like, no, you know, I'm gonna get in line, I'm gonna order my food, I'm gonna take my time, I'm gonna ask as many questions as I want. Um, I don't need to rush when I'm getting my money out and that kind of thing. And just starting to rehearse that situation in my dream space really helped me get a bigger perspective on how I don't need that doesn't need to be something that I'm stressed out about whilst I'm awake. Um, you know, I don't need to those kind of restaurants, I'm not annoying anybody. You know, I'd I'd ask the dream character behind me, like, how do you feel about me taking a long time ordering or getting my money? And always the response was just like, take your time, it's absolutely fine, you know, order what you want. It's it's not it's not a big deal. And just going through that kind of thing and rewriting that kind of scenario lifted so much weight um off the top of my back. And and I think a lot of us carry those kind of um, I guess, like anxious or stress-filled situations with us that are quite easy to just rewrite and rework um and and not have it as something that bothers us in our day-to-day life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And I'm thinking about a number of different situations in my own life where I could apply this. Uh, but one that's come to mind is uh public speaking, and I imagine especially that many of the people listening to this who are highly sensitive struggle with public speaking or anxiety about um performing. So yeah, I imagine this is really helpful for that as well.
SPEAKER_00It is. Um, and and you know, the other kind of tool that I guess comes into that and and with speaking in particular, I think is um working on lucid language. And I guess this is kind of the part of the lucid living element that I like to dive into. So I think the language we use for ourselves does make a massive difference. And um, step one for me with that was to stop using kind of blanket terms. Like I recognized that it was easy for me a lot of the time to just say, like, oh my god, I'm anxious right now, or I'm stressed out, and actually starting to describe how I feel in particular situations using a different word that's not a blanket term and um oftentimes you know a kinder word for myself, like instead of just being, you know, working all day and then being like, Oh, I'm stressed, um, switching up to saying, like, well, I'm feeling excited right now about. Just taking a little break, getting my juices flowing, getting back into that flow state. Um, instead of you know, the negative side of it, just changing it to how I actually feel, which was yeah, maybe I am just excited to have a little break and um and get back into a flow state. And then um kind of step two to that is is adding on an action. So saying, like, well, then I'm gonna put on my favorite playlist and go for a 10-minute walk, or I'm gonna listen to an inspiring podcast for 10 minutes and lay on the sofa or whatever it is, just like doing something to switch up our sensory for even 10 minutes can be massive. And then and then asking myself after that, like now how do I feel? Am I still technically stressed, or like what else is going on for me?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's really, really helpful. Um, and again, something else that came up for me was just removing ourselves from that label. So, you know, we might say that we're experiencing anxiety right now, as opposed to saying, I am anxiety, or it is me, just recognizing that it's a passing state and something that you can always move through rather than getting stuck in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. And I think comes back to you know what you're saying about like sometimes when we do label ourselves as having, you know, a mental illness, or just even that label of like I'm a sensitive person, you know, knowing what it means for you as like you could choose to use sensitive as a negative, or you can use it as something really empowering, like, yeah, I am someone who's really emotional, but I'm connected to my emotions and I have the power to choose how I want to feel and that kind of thing. So I definitely think that's that's been an empowering thing for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Do you have a favorite book or quote or something you'd like to share with the listeners today?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I guess I have a favorite quote which I've been using a lot for myself at the moment. And I think it's an Ernest Hemingway quote, but um, the quote I've been using is uh we create our tomorrows by what we dream today. And I love that one because I think it's just really tied into how you know every day we can start fresh with our dreams. Um doesn't have to start tomorrow, you know, it starts like right now if we want it to. Um if you do something different today for yourself, it's that that recognition that you're already shifting the reality you live in, you're already working on your dreams, you're already um creating a different outcome for yourself. So I just really love that concept.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. I love that as well. And it reminds me of um yeah, philosophy I live by, which is that we we always have a choice as to how we um direct our life. And no matter how bad or negative or stuck we feel, we always have a choice to change that. And that can be as simple as going to sleep, having a lucid dream, and waking up and choosing to do things differently, right? And I think um, yeah, that's such a powerful realization.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I think, yeah, it is important to know like we can start the change today, right now, if we want to. It's we don't have to wait for you know the new year or um wait for the start of the month, or you know, okay, I'll start changing things on Tuesday, or when I have enough money to purchase this course, or that kind of thing. Like it really does start with what we're dreaming up for ourselves today.
SPEAKER_01So we're coming close to the end now. Um, I have enjoyed this conversation so much, and I'm just wondering if there's anything else you'd like to share before we come to a close. Anything you are desperate to let us know.
SPEAKER_00I guess, yeah, I'd just like to share more about you know the diversity of lucid dreaming for highly sensitive people and and how it can be used in so many different ways. So, you know, it doesn't just have to be on those like foundational categories. Um, I made a video recently sharing my top five lucid dreams, and um, they were in meeting with my future self. Um, one of them was playing Quidditch above Tokyo, one of them was um tripping on Solo Saibin in the clouds, uh having an afternoon tea with my favorite business mentors. Um, and my favorite of this year was a sound healing session with God. So yeah, I just wanted to express how you know it is like your own virtual reality space, really. And um you can, if you just want to use it for whatever ways you want, um, even if it's just extra time spent consciously for like practicing a sport that maybe you don't have time for in your waking life. Or yeah, again, like taking a vacation, meeting with a deceased loved one or your pet. Um, it doesn't have to be for something, you know, really serious processing and self-development. So I guess that's just an important distinction that I'd like to make.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I think that will be so helpful for people to yeah, have have a go and explore. Um, and and with that being said, is there anywhere in particular that the listeners can go today to find out more about your work or the resources that you've mentioned today?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, so my main platforms are um Instagram and Facebook. My Instagram handle is my name, uh Lana Sackwild, and my Facebook page is Get Lucid with Lana. Um I also have a YouTube that's um get lucid with Lana as well. Um, and I do a series on there called Get Dreaming with, which is all based around um interviewing different lucid dreamers around the globe and talking about their own unique techniques and abilities and experiences. Um and I also do a series on there called Get Lucid TV, which is about um lucid living, and I share uh resources that I use for that. Um those things are totally free. Um, and then I guess for people who are maybe interested in working more in-depth on themselves, um, you can visit my website, which is again my name, lanasackwell.com. Um I offer one-on-one coaching, uh, webinars. I have a retreat next April. And um, the thing that I'm most excited about right now is uh currently enrolling for my eight-week online course, the Lucid Entrepreneur Lab, which coaches entrepreneurs how to dream bigger and achieve more. It's got 60 days of lucid dreaming and lucid living practices, um, 52 step-by-step modules, group coaching sessions, and it also has four uh private coaching sessions with me. So it's a really high-touch, intimate um course. Uh so anyone who's yeah, just really ready to start up or deepen their lucid dreaming practice or use that space to their advantage, um, especially you know, professionally, uh, if you want to work on, you know, removing old habits or working through psychological blockages and really um, you know, create your roadmap to success. Um, please do register for that or send me a message if you have any questions about it.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing. And I will put the links that you mentioned in the show notes so people can access those really easily. And thank you again for being on the show today. It's been really, really inspiring, and I'm really looking forward to potentially having a lucid dream tonight. Um, and I will let you know.
SPEAKER_00I feel like we talk about um dream work all the time, and and um I feel really blessed that you're creating a platform like this where we can, you know, share uh the magic of lucid dreaming with more people.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. Um, yeah, we will stay in touch and um I look forward to hearing more about your work. Thanks for joining me this week on Highly Sensitive Humans. Make sure to visit my website, highly sensitivehumans.com, where you can subscribe to the show and find out more about my upcoming workshops, my online eight-week course, and where I also offer one-to-one coaching for highly sensitive people. And if you found value in the show today, I'd really appreciate a rating. Or if you'd simply share this episode with your friends or other highly sensitive people, that would help support this podcast.