Highly Sensitive Humans Podcast
The Highly Sensitive Humans Podcast offers insight into the world of the Highly Sensitive Person, and helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to feel more empowered and resilient without denying their authentic gifts.
Highly Sensitive Humans Podcast
Loving and Celebrating Highly Sensitive People with Jonathan Baurer
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In this episode, I speak with Jonathan Baurer who is a coach and author. He has written valuable books based on his experience of being a father and a husband of a HSP and HSC. We talk about high sensitivity and relationships and the importance of building awareness around the trait to support our differences.
Jonathan Baurer, Certified Life Coach, author, and entrepreneur based out of Asheville, North Carolina, is the co-founder of Exploring Changes, a blended life-coaching publishing house. Jonathan helps clients overcome the challenges that make them feel stuck so they can live the life they are meant. He enjoys helping people bridge the gap between where they are, and where they want to be. Jonathan is the author of three bestselling non-fiction books including: Positive Parenting Solutions to Raise a Highly Sensitive Child and Loving a Highly Sensitive Person. He also helps aspiring authors bring their creations to life. Jonathan is inspired by learning about new ideas, experiencing entirely new things, and creating authentic connections with others.
Stay in Touch with Jonathan:
Website | https://exploringchanges.com/
Facebook profile | https://www.facebook.com/ExploringChanges/
Instagram profile | https://www.instagram.com/jonathanbaurer/
LinkedIn profile | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-baurer/
The Book: Loving a Highly Sensitive Person by Jonathan Baurer
About the Host: Jules De Vitto is a transpersonal coach, trainer and experienced educator for Highly Sensitive People. She helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to navigate emotional overwhelm, step into their authentic power and align with their true purpose in life. She is a published author and wrote one of a series of books on Resilience, Navigating Loss in a time of Crisis. Her research has also been published in the Transpersonal Coaching Psychology Journal and Journal of Consciousness, Spirituality, and Transpersonal Psychology.
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Welcome. I'm your host, Jules Davito, and you're listening to the Highly Sensitive Human Podcast, the show that offers an insight into the world of the highly sensitive person. And helps those who identify with the traits of high sensitivity to feel more empowered and resilient without denying their authentic gifts.
SPEAKER_01Jonathan Bora, certified life coach, author, and entrepreneur based out of Asheville, North Carolina, is the co-founder of Exploring Changes, a blended life coaching publishing house. Jonathan helps clients overcome the challenges that make them feel stuck so they can live the life they are meant. He enjoys helping people bridge the gap between where they are and where they want to be. Jonathan is the author of three best-selling non-fiction books, including Positive Parenting Solutions to Raise a Highly Sensitive Child and Loving a Highly Sensitive Person. He also helps aspiring authors bring their creations to life. Jonathan is inspired by learning about new ideas, experiencing entirely new things, and creating authentic connections with others. So welcome, Jonathan, and thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
SPEAKER_02Jules, thank you so much for this invitation. I'm honored and very much looking forward to this dialogue.
SPEAKER_01Same. I'm really looking forward to talking about this topic today. And so, yeah, let's just begin with, you know, getting to know you a little bit better. So I already know the answer to this question, because obviously we've connected before. But what is your connection to high sensitivity? Are you a highly sensitive person or who do you know in your life that is highly sensitive?
SPEAKER_02Well, this is a great way to get to know each other because what I've been very lucky to have in my life is two people in my immediate family, my wife and my daughter, who are a highly sensitive. I identify as having highly sensitive HSP type of traits. And I'm really lucky to count a number of different friends and other people in my life as being highly sensitive as well. I wouldn't identify as having those similar traits. Um, but one of the really exciting things is how many people I've come to know who are highly sensitive. And as we uh bring this topic to more awareness, um, how the people continuously come to me who I've I've been interacting with for years and say, you know what, I'm highly sensitive. So that's what brings me to this topic. And it's understanding those relationships. It's what's really important to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, fantastic. And so would you say, was it through your family, through your wife and your your child that you first came to understand about sensitivity? How did you first ever hear about the concept?
SPEAKER_02Great question. It actually came through initially as my experiences being a father for the first time. Now, my daughter, who is um highly sensitive, is now uh she just turned 18. But um it was through exploring um some of her traits and understanding wow, a lot of these I see in common with my wife. And as we began to learn, then learn about um those highly sensitive traits, the the picture began to emerge. And that's what initially um brought me to this world and wanting to know more about this and how to build effective relationships.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, brilliant. And would you be able to mention what a few of those traits are? What what did you identify in your in your daughter who is now 18, so soon becoming an adult? Um what kind of traits did you recognize?
SPEAKER_02Gotcha. Well, there were a few, and I can't, it's difficult to sum up all her amazing gifts in in one uh quick piece here. But a few of the things that I began to recognize early on is that there were things that were stimulating her that I didn't see through the same lens. Um, sometimes it was crowds, it was not wanting to have her food mix on a plate or um being sensitive to a certain material. And then even beyond that, it was emotional connections um to uh how people were interacting, even movies and those types of things. And I really began to tap into the fact that she was processing things in a deeper, more brilliant way than I was. And of course, that led to different reactions that I didn't know how to anticipate necessarily, or how to react to myself. But that's what began the process of needing to learn more about this. And um, and then through the interactions with my wife, being able to help make sense of this because it's difficult when they're kids. And um, this was an emerging topic for us over the years. And uh now that there's been more literature and more people like you doing this wonderful work, um, it's really allowed us to explore it even to a deeper level.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, fantastic. And so I know that you've written a couple of books on this topic, which we'll get to through the course of this interview. And first of all, I want to talk about your recent book. So you recently wrote Loving a Highly Sensitive Person, how to understand and celebrate the highly sensitive person you love with effective communication skills. Great title. Uh and I know that's of interest to so many people. So can you tell us a bit more about this book and and what yeah, what this book is all about?
SPEAKER_02Sure. And I appreciate you um sharing that compliment uh regarding the title because it's one that I felt like was important, especially the word celebrate.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02Because when you ask what it's about, it really is about celebrating the the things that make us different and how that helps build connection and ultimately strengthens a loving relationship. And so some of the topics in here may not feel as celebratory because they are quite authentic and they talk about personal experiences and some of the obstacles that have presented themselves just through our different lens. But ultimately, it's about creating awareness and validation, understanding, and through that building connection. And that's that's really the purpose of what we we've put pen to paper for. And when I say we, I'm the author, but it's all through the comments and love and support of uh my daughter and then especially my wife.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I I love what you're saying about the importance of building connection through awareness. And so, would you say, in terms of what inspired you to write this book? Again, I I imagine it is your experience of being a father and and with your wife as well, and being in a relationship with a highly sensitive person. So, yeah, what what inspired you to write the book?
SPEAKER_02If I'm being completely honest, which is the whole point of what I do these days, it's that 90% of, well, if I'm being really honest, 100% of the things that come out of my mouth are things that I need to hear for myself. Or that I I would hope other people would know about me as well. So uh ultimately these are reflections of what it is I'm learning about highly sensitive traits, about um the stimuli, the the way that people perceive the world. And by that I mean everybody, regardless of where they fall um in terms of being highly sensitive or not, but how we interact with the world around us, and in what I would like people to know about me and what I want to know more about with other people. And that was the inspiration from the book is I've been married for over two decades, and my daughter is now growing up very quickly. But these are things I wish I had known earlier, and so as I reflect on it, it's those learnings and it's those understandings that I'm most excited to be sharing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And obviously, this book is all about relationships, and um we all have the experience of having struggles and challenges in relationships. So, from your experience, what are some of those major challenges that, well, first of all, that we all face in relationships?
SPEAKER_02Briefly, I'll share my own because that's the only one I'm an expert in. And um, that is I want to be known and understood as well. And there are things that I bring to conversations, not being as sensitive, that may trigger a reaction that I was entirely unaware of. And so it's about opening up those conversations, creating a safe environment for that that I feel like is most important. And by a safe environment, I mean it's one that we're thinking about in advance. I I'll tell you, quite honestly, being a dad and being a husband for a long time or in any kind of a relationship. I don't I don't care if it's with a colleague or a friend, but if you're if you're relying heavily on a relationship, understanding how to have shared expectations, a similar mental model is really important for communication. And when we bring different communication styles to it, that can be a real challenge. And so it's just about creating an awareness to all of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And I can definitely share from my experience. So from a personal level, and also with my client work and and obviously coaching a lot of highly sensitive people, I know this comes up a lot. That being a highly sensitive person can bring this sense of feeling misunderstood, or often feeling in conversation that we want to or we have a need to take the conversation to quite a deep level, and that relates to the depth of processing. And I have experienced that most of the time with my close friends or in my romantic relationships, I go there very quickly, very automatically. I go to the deep stuff, and that's the stuff I like to talk about. Um, and that can sometimes bring up challenges in communication because I know not not everyone wants to or has a need to have those kind of conversations. Uh, so the more deep philosophical, uh, psychological, spiritual conversations. Um and I'm wondering, yeah, is that something you've also experienced, or is that something you talk about in the book?
SPEAKER_02It is. In fact, I think that's such a beautiful example. And it's so important it to share that that type of an experience that I've put a few anecdotes like that in the book. Um, I think there is a prime example that I I believe I've written about in the book. I would have to see where the passage is, whether it made it into the final edit. Um, but one of the common things is that in the evening to unwind, for example, I'm perfectly content uh reading a book, watching a movie, doing something that that just feels quiet and it um and not in depth of processing for me. And that that's a part of the way that I tend to recharge. To the same extent, um to recharge the battery for my wife, it's often having some a very quiet evening, but one where we do talk at a deeper level and we reflect. And it's about thinking about how our our daughters are doing or what's happening in our careers or what's going on with the next book, but at a very deep level, not just the the nuts and bolts of how is your day. Well, that opens up if if we're thinking about things differently, and that's how we both need to recharge, that either opens the opportunity to find division and for me to go my way and her hers, in which case we're not supporting each other, or if we have awareness of that in advance to be able to figure out how we can connect. And so I've also provided examples in the book as to uh what that might look like for different people.
SPEAKER_01Right, fantastic. And that feels again really important and a valuable resource for, I imagine, so many sensitive people who might be in relationships with people who are not as sensitive, trying to find that way to, yeah, connect and have uh a middle meeting ground in in that sense. And you know, something else that just occurred to me was a big difference I've experienced is on the physical needs as well or the sensory needs. So uh, for example, and I'm I'm thinking about romantic relationships here. I need to sleep a lot. As a sensitive person, there's a need often to have more sleep than the average person. And I know in the past this could bring up challenges because perhaps the person I was with didn't need as much sleep. Um, and then things like lighting or sound, making sure the room isn't too bright or it's not too noisy, those kind of things can bring up differences as well. So, yeah, again, I'm wondering what your opinion on that is.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wow, that is such an important topic that we have evolved over time in our relationships. I'll just speak very, very personally on the subject, but I see this coming up over and again. So I think it's important that you brought this up. Uh, that a lot of times I will sleep in a different room because I tend to not sleep as much. And my physical environment isn't as important. So, to your point, in the evenings, there's a kind of a routine that I observe with my wife and my daughter. And they both have their space, and how it's set up is very important. Um, disruption or other cues. Um, and it it to back up, at first I thought that was pointed towards me. That in all honesty, I thought maybe I was doing something wrong that she didn't want to be right there with me. Why not? Right? And what I've come to realize over time was that it really had nothing to do with me. And in fact, she loves her cat, doesn't even really like her cat pawing at her face late in the evening. And and so uh it's just about bringing exposure to these conversations, which is why I appreciate you bringing up uh this brilliant example of how even when it comes to our rest or those physical connections, an open dialogue before we just make assumptions about what's going on is really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And it again, it's the communication piece of this, isn't it? Which is a huge part and coming to this shared understanding and shared awareness of what is really going on. And you know, with that, what why would you say this book is so important then? Why why should or could someone read this book and what would they benefit from if they read it?
SPEAKER_02So my hope is that as people read a book like this, that they're really opening themselves up to the subject and providing a new awareness for themselves and the other people that they're in a relationship with. Not all of the examples, or even my writing style, may necessarily resonate, although I hope it does, but I hope that the pros really encourage people to look at themselves and the other people who they want to have a relationship with in a new light. Part of why I think this is important, and I think I mentioned this right at the beginning of our time together, is that this is a new subject for so many people. The the term highly sensitive is even relatively new. It wasn't something that we thought about, um, or at least I was aware of a decade ago. And and so as we as we watch these understandings and people like you that are helping so many people, I think that's what I want the book to do is to elevate the conversation. And for people like myself who might say, I don't understand why I'm having trouble connecting. And I think your example was a good one. I just want to come in and cuddle with my wife in the evening. What's what's wrong with that? Shouldn't I get an award for being that husband? Well, no, that's ridiculous as I learn more. And also for somebody like my wife in a relationship, and that's why the book is written in the way it is, to understand what it is that I'm feeling and experiencing as well, so that we can open a dialogue and open communication and learn from each other and build a stronger relationship through that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, beautiful. And again, it's coming back to this uh building awareness, having an open dialogue, being able to learn from each other. And I'm wondering if you would be able to share a more specific resource that you mentioned in the book, or or something that's tangible in terms of, yeah, what would be an effective way of sitting down and being able to communicate with your partner and have these conversations or even provide a safe space to have these conversations. Is there anything in the book you specifically recommend?
SPEAKER_02Holding the book in your hand. Actually, I say that tongue in cheek because there's also an audiobook or an e-book. But sometimes it's having the prompt in front of you. Of course, the challenge to the reader or the listener in this case is that it's really about taking these experiences and this learning and applying it to their own life, because not every example is going to be perfectly applicable. We know that everybody has or experiences sensitivity in different ways. And I'm even talking about people who aren't highly sensitive. Um, and I I always laugh at the turn non-HSP, right? That's how I would be, but I still have emotions and feelings. And so sometimes having the a physical book in hand or a physical place, uh, one of your podcasts or an experience to say, here's what we're reflecting on, is a perfect prompt to just open the conversation. I wouldn't expect for the book to be read like a user's manual out of a car or for a computer. It's not designed to be that way. It's really my hope is that people can hear a conversation like the one that we're having now, pick up a book like like mine or others that are now starting to populate on the shelves, and really be able to say, how do I use this as a catalyst to create awareness in the relationships that are important to me? So, for to directly answer your question, we have some spaces in the house that are very safe spaces that we know that when we go sit there, it's to have these types of conversations and and to be able to make a time for that. And to my wife's credit, my daughter's, and I think this works well for all of us, when one of us isn't in spirit to be able to have this type of a conversation, we offer each other the courtesy of a rain check where we say, here's where and when we're gonna come back. It's not held out, you know, indefinitely to disappear into the ether or be ignored. It's when are we coming together? And what are those ground rules so that we can be sure that we're talking with each other respectfully and authentically and with the courage that it's gonna take to be able to get to that loving place rather than that defensive place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I really like what you've said because you know, you touched upon this idea that we're all different, and it's not as simple as saying we're highly sensitive or we're not. Uh, it's a spectrum of experience. And we, as you mentioned, we all have emotions, we all have feelings and needs. And so what really came through from what you just shared now is this importance of listening and respecting those differences and honoring those and uh having having a space yeah where you've established those shared values or ground rules uh feels so important in itself. Um so yeah, I think that's a brilliant. Resource in itself, you know, just developing this awareness and the ability to respect and honor our differences.
SPEAKER_02You said it beautifully. And I'll I'll echo that by by using the word intention. That we we have these intentions of wanting to have these powerful, strong relationships with people who are important to us in our lives. And for whatever reasons, there's so many different ones. One of the most important is that we we tend to put our own or project our own perspective onto how other people might be feeling as well. And when we can remind ourselves that our intention is to build a positive relationship, set that intention clearly, understand that, and sit down to the conversation with a new openness instead of saying, I'm gonna bring my own perspective to this, make sure you know it. It's it's bringing a curiosity to it. And maybe that's another great word is is that curiosity to say, I really want to understand you because I I love you, I respect you, I want, I want to have a strong relationship. And when two people can approach or or more can approach a conversation in that way, that's where the sparks fly, and it's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, curiosity, I love that. So rather than having a lot of judgments and assumptions, and I I feel like what you're saying this applies to all types of relationships, doesn't it? Not just romantic relationships, but uh work relationships, family relationships, relationships with children, right? So yeah, that's really important.
SPEAKER_02And ironically, sometimes the most difficult relationships to bring that to are the ones that are the most trusting, where we feel like people should just know us. Um, we and it's easy to fall into those habits and the assumptions. Well, we've been together for so long, why don't they just know me? They should be able to read my mind by now. And sometimes that's where the pitfall comes. And that's actually the excitement out of this type of a conversation or this type of book is you get to keep learning and exploring more and more magic about other people the closer we get to them. So it's just a friendly reminder that you may have known somebody a long time and it's easy to fall back on those old habits. Um, but what we really want to do is keep learning about the people that we are in a relationship with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, keep asking the questions, right? Um, and it yeah, it brings me to something I I just wanted to ask you as well, which is obviously the title of the book is as you pointed out, the word celebrating to celebrate. And what are some of the things that you celebrate about uh being in a relationship with uh or being married to a highly sensitive person and having a highly sensitive child as well?
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. So there are so many things, but the the number one that comes to mind is that they're great at filling in all of my blind spots. And and it a big piece of that is they see things, they can read things and understand things and call it to my attention that I would otherwise just miss. And how much of life is so important that it shouldn't be missed. The let me share a couple of examples with you, if you wouldn't mind.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_02Uh, when if we're walking in nature, for example, I love being out in nature, and I can put my head down and hike and just enjoy the thrill of the hike, they can encourage me to see things that I wouldn't otherwise see. Um, aesthetically, uh, to feel things I wouldn't notice otherwise. And so one of the greatest gifts is that they teach me a higher level of awareness that I would otherwise miss.
SPEAKER_01Uh, and as you as you were talking, I was relating it to my personal experience, a sense of, you know, one of the characteristics of being sensitive is uh sensitivity to subtleties that we notice details. So we we notice subtle changes in temperature or the weather or yeah, seeing something in the horizon or patterns in a tree or something like that. And you know, I do often find myself wondering other people seeing the things that I'm seeing, and often it's not the case. So I do I do think it's beautiful to be so open to having someone in your life say, Oh, look, I'm seeing this, and and you being open to it. That's beautiful. And it's making me think how so, what what is it that you bring to the relationship? Because it's so nice to have that balance too. I know for myself, sometimes it can feel a bit overwhelming to always be so in tune with what's going on around me that sometimes I need grounding and I need a sense of being able to come back to to myself. Um, and I'm wondering, yeah, is that something you experience too in in relationship?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, great questions. In fact, I I heard two things in there that I might like to reflect on for just a moment. Um, and I'll I'll answer your question as to how I feel I may be complimentary to my wife rather than just uh a polar opposite. And the but before I do that, I would like to address what what you mentioned earlier in the being open to her gifts. And I might suggest that it's not always that simple, and part of it is a real tribute to her in creating that space to allow me to be vulnerable and listen with that level of awareness. And what I mean by that is it might be very easy based on our experiences together, especially earlier in our relationship, for her to just think I was ridiculous because I wasn't picking up on those subtleties. Well, why why didn't he bring an extra layer? He knew we were gonna go out, and I could tell that it was gonna get colder. Tapton, and why is it that he just keeps talking when when it's really important that this other person across the table has something important to say? And and it would be very easy for me to feel like I was just a bull in the China shop or a buffoon for not picking up on those things if she were simply calling it. That's common sense. You should just know that, or otherwise putting me down for her having an awareness that I don't. She knows that those are some of her superpowers, whether she knows it consciously or subconsciously, or um, I'm not even sure she identified them as superpowers earlier on. Um, but that she didn't make me feel less than for not having those. Also, allowing me when I make mistakes to just make mistakes and um and see the intention isn't always ill behind it. And so I write about that in a book as well, that that that's led to conflict in the past, and as we've opened up the shared space to be able to validate me as much as anything else and say, okay, it it was an honest mistake, and here's what I'm trying to do, and I I want this outcome, and in that we we share the same goal, and and then that way uh I I can feel when she when she taps me and says, slow down a little bit here, take this in, not to feel like I was doing something wrong, but to really understand that there is a gift here that I get to recognize.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, thank you for saying all of that.
SPEAKER_02And then there was the second part of your question, and that was what I might bring. And and you gave me a great prompt in that, and you you talked about how much information um I'm becoming aware of that a highly sensitive person is processing and going through all of these contingencies at every step. And oh my goodness, I gotta, I gotta just say, from my perspective, that sounds exhausting. Um, and it must be because I I see some reactions of stress or overwhelm coming from my daughter and my wife when they are processing uh so much stimuli and thinking about every eventuality that that's you know, 10, 12, 100 steps down the road. I tend to have an easier time of just jumping in and doing something. And so, to some extent, my wife has told me that that's often very helpful. I'll share a quick anecdote with you from the this weekend, even as we're driving out of town, um, and there's traffic, it's you know, Friday afternoon, traffic, and everyone's hungry, and we have kids in a car, and you want to talk about all the triggers that might otherwise create a high level of anxiety, they're there. And I don't know the area that we're in, and we want to stop for something quickly to see if we can find something to eat along the route. And I'm asking her to help with the map and help identify where that might be. That's overwhelmed. It's much easier for me to be able to say, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pull in here and then we're gonna stop and reassess and decide, does this place meet our needs? And if it doesn't, we'll we'll find a new place. But we can do that with a calm breath instead of in the middle of traffic and without being in front of a location that might at least potentially uh fit fit the needs. And so um I I have the ability to do things like that, and it seems to be very complementary. Uh, there are other with that example, if I go a little bit deeper, um, my my daughter who is also sensitive, um that those the two when you have two highly sensitive people both experiencing that amount of stimuli, it can tend to really spiral. And there can be uh deeper and deeper anxieties because they're they're sharing those with each other to some extent, validating that. Because I don't sense it in the same way, it allows me to kind of stop and then provide that space for a quick reset and understanding as to where we need to go next. So rather than um reinforcing the fact that things are really overwhelming right then to just find a new space that doesn't feel as overwhelming. I can, in essence, be in maybe a good term would be an escape module for that.
SPEAKER_00I like that.
SPEAKER_02I'll just be a life raft, and um and and so I do feel like there are times where I have that that skill. I have to be aware of what it is and try to proactively be helpful in that because they're very capable of helping themselves, they're extremely resilient. But if if I can be a positive influence to it, maybe that's what I'm trying to say best, then that's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, again, I really appreciate what you're saying because it's about finding this balance and harmony, isn't it, between our differences. And you know, we talk a lot, or I talk a lot about highly sensitive people having superpowers, and of course we do, but we're all sensitive or non-sensitive, we're all human, we all make mistakes, we all have strengths and weaknesses. And I really like to emphasize the point that you know, at no point am I saying highly sensitive people are better than uh non-sensitive people. Yes, we are in tune with subtleties in the environment, but there are positives and potentially negatives that come with that, as we're talking about here. So, yeah, just to make it clear that it's a difference, it's not better than or worse than. And, you know, that's really what you're saying as well. And I think it's so important to make that point clear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I love that. And it, you know, I uh have a business background. I'm kind of an embryo MBA corporate kind in my previous life. And um, we used to do a thing, it it's a funny name to me now. They would call it a SWOT analysis, right? Very serious leadership gets together. And they think about the strengths and weaknesses and opportunities and threats of a business. But what you were seeing, I wouldn't use this in a in a um in a relationship conversation, but it does apply to humans as much as it does anything else, that our greatest strengths can also be our weaknesses, and vice versa. And so it's having awareness to those that's so important. And so you can look at those superpowers, those real strengths, and know that when we when we're operating in a place where we get to elevate those, it it's magical and beautiful in every way, shape, and form. If we're operating out of a place where they aren't recognized or or um where they're under threat or duress, then they become a weakness. And so we we want to be able to position ourselves where where those are strengths instead of weaknesses, but they're oftentimes the same, the same traits.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that. Um, and I'm also a big advocate for um, I talk a lot about this concept of the the wounded healer and how uh it's our wounds, uh, our struggles in life that are our biggest strengths. Uh so yeah, resonating with what you're saying here as well. And this brings me to the next question, which is I know that you're also a life coach, and I'm curious what what kind of coaching do you offer?
SPEAKER_02Oh, great. Well, my coaching actually originally began as consulting around business. And ultimately I recognized that the conversations really changed. Uh, they began to morph to more about what is it that people were trying to achieve, what their ultimate desires were. So in business, we talk about KPIs and OKRs and ROCs and all these measurables because businesses like to measure everything, right? So we would we would do that and learn that we weren't really getting at what was meaningful and fulfilling for the people that were doing these activities in their work. So basically now I'm a career coach. And and what that really looks like is how can I help people find the work that feels most fulfilling, meaningful, and aligned with their values. It's why I enjoy writing. Um, and if you look at the books that I write, they're about topics, like I said earlier on, that are most interesting to me and and the ones that I need to remind myself of. And uh and so my work has really turned into doing the things that I feel are important for me to be able to express as part of my creative expression. And I want to share this with the world. I want to help people who are struggling or feeling stuck in their current circumstances at work, um, which leads right into their personal life, right? You talked about that, how these relationships cross boundaries. We don't we don't turn on and off what's happening at home or at work so easily. We're we're a whole person, I would hope, and then we can live a whole life. And so that's that's the work I do as a coach.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. And again, I know this topic is so important for highly sensitive people, as in finding work that is aligned with our values. I know it's important for everyone, but I have found that sensitive people are particularly passionate about finding uh yeah, their passion and purpose in life. It's such an important topic that comes up so much. And for you, you mentioned writing. And so I know that you've also written another book, uh, which is all about positive parenting solutions to raise a highly sensitive child. And I know we've been talking a little bit about children already. You've mentioned your daughter. So can you tell us a bit more about this book? Because this is also a passion of mine. I was a teacher for a long time working in primary education. And since I've been doing the work with highly sensitive adults, I also work with highly sensitive children. So yeah, I'm really interested to hear more about this book as well.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate that. The uh that book began is a project for me to help communicate um how it is that we were approaching our daughter's highly sensitive traits, specifically with other teachers. And stuff like that. That's where that was born from because it's it it was something that I found other educational professionals or even uh mental health care professionals, and quite frankly, just other other parents that we were talking with weren't aware of this. And and so I wanted to share some insight that this is how we're thinking about our relationship with our child. And when I say ours, there there's chapters in there about um having an HSP be the parent of an HSC and and some of those dynamics, as well as a non-HSP like myself um raising an HSC. So we really wanted to bring that to the forefront. Uh a big piece of what I was trying to delineate in that book as well is what are those traits? What does this mean? Because for some parents, what the other thing that I really began to uncover when I was doing research for the book and just being a dad myself out in the community talking to other parents, was they didn't know what was perhaps just normal developmental behavior for a neurotypical child, or I'm not even going to um I'll I'll say there are different neurodiversities, um, even beyond being highly sensitive. And and where I was heading with that is um, you know, we have a a a daughter with ADHD and another one with dyslexia, and you know, I have a nephew on the spectrum. So they're there are different pieces, and it's saying, okay, well, which of these um, you know, would be part of just a highly sensitive trait? Is there something else we should be aware of? And the really important thing here is that it's not about labels, it's about awareness and understanding what are the questions that we should be asking. How do we want to connect with our our children and knowing that, especially with a child, they may not know why they're reacting that way. They're they're they're having um, you know, a very emotional reaction to something, and I may not be aware of what is triggering that or what is causing that, but how do I develop that awareness so that I can respond to them with empathy, compassion, and love, um, and help them be the resilient young child that they should be growing into. So that's the reason that we wrote that book. And again, I when I say we, I like to write a lot, just like I like to talk, as you are discovering. But thank goodness for my wife and my daughter, who are wonderful at being able to go through these materials and and help make them something that is more approachable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's beautiful what you just shared. And I actually just wrote down something you just said because I was so moved by it when you said it's not about the labels, it's about awareness. What are the questions we should be asking? I feel that is so powerful because um what one of the things I'm doing at the moment is I offer a course where I'm training professionals, so teachers, uh, parents as well, or therapists who work with children to bring awareness around what high sensitivity is. And the question comes up all the time of you know, is this um Autism spectrum disorder, is this ADHD? Is this dyslexia? How do they overlap? What are the differences? And I often say that labels are important. They help us make sense of the world and help us make sense of what children might be experiencing, but we need we need to go beyond the labels. We need to really understand about the lived experience of the children and find out why and how they're experiencing the world in the way that they do. So I feel really inspired by what you've shared and also about this book. So yeah, thank you so much for the work you're doing with this. And I think it's amazing too that your daughter and your wife, you know, are involved in the creative process as well.
SPEAKER_02It's one of the things that's really brought us closer, and going right back to one of your earlier questions in terms of what can people get out of these types of books, it's when you're doing a project like this, it just opens up an amazing space, an amazing dialogue to be able to go next level. And so even though I've known my daughter all her life, you know, when from the time that she was born, and she's now she just celebrated her 18th birthday, and and that's been magnificent. I'm just getting to know her. And if the tools in this book were something I had when she was born, I I wish I'd known then what I know now. Of course, there's that reflection I think a lot of parents have. And so I'm very hopeful that as your work and this type of book continue to um gain traction, that more educators and community members and and people at social events and just other parents down the street will be able to be more open to asking questions and gaining that curiosity in instead of just trying to make the kids conform in another way that isn't gonna work. That's what I'm like.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I have hope. I feel, you know, in terms of the work we're doing and the conversations we're having, such as this one, it's helping to bring that awareness and um so much, so many more professionals and parents uh understanding that we need to look at this in a in a different way with different eyes, different perspective. And um so I want to ask you that I ask all of my uh guest interviewers, interviewees on the podcast, if you have a favorite book or quote that you'd like to share for the listeners today.
SPEAKER_02Oh, sure. So there's an author that has written a few different books, and I've enjoyed all of them for what they're they're worth. It's Ryan Holliday. The reason I wanted to share this one today is because um I thought it's especially apropos for this topic. It's titled The Obstacle is the way. Now, that book isn't written about highly sensitive, and in fact, um it's it's more just about how to live life and it even has some business challenges in it. But I love the message, the obstacle is the way. That when we when we think about, and you you talked, you rattled off um ADHD and um autism spectrum disorder. Uh my my oldest who is highly sensitive also identifies as having social anxiety, which is different than than being highly sensitive. But sometimes there are these things that are even cross-mingle, right? So as we go through these these different pieces, and we talked about them not being labels, it's easy to identify them as challenges or or other even pejorative words. I like obstacle because through the lens of the obstacle is the way, I can see then that these are strengths or gifts. And sometimes they don't always present instantly. But as I learn more about it, it always comes up that, oh my gosh, well, look at these. Now I'm gaining a new awareness to your creativity or to your language of expression or how you see things that I need to be aware of. And as we incorporate those gifts, we really do build the connection. So the obstacle is the way is just what um I was thinking about when you shared that prompt. And uh um me not identifying as an HSP and my wife identifying as an HSP could either be the end of our relationship or the very beginning of it, depending on how we choose to accept that obstacle. And I prefer the idea of using it as the way to enhance a relationship.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for sharing that. Such a powerful reframe, as well, isn't it? The obstacle is the way. Um, and I feel like that's something we can apply to so many different areas of our lives. Uh, similar to what we were talking about earlier, this sense of, you know, those struggles, whether you want to call them struggles or obstacles, are can be the greatest gifts and strengths in our lived experience of being human. So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that. On that note, we're actually coming to the end. And I'm I'm wondering if there is anything else you feel we've missed that you would like to share about this topic before we bring it to a close.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Um, I think there's nothing that we've missed so much as what I would like to re-emphasize. And that we are all very complex individuals. And it's it's what's so beautiful is that no two of us are the same. And it's very difficult, I'll speak for myself, to even fully know and appreciate who I am as an individual. And that's something that I continuously have to work on is who am I? What's my authentic self? What does that look like? And then can I open up a space to share that with other people? Because if I'm not even fully aware of that, how would I expect anybody else to be aware of who I am? And when I do that, and then I get really curious about the other person, and I I think we said it well, knowing what obstacles they may have, what their gifts, what what they perceive as being a challenge might be, that's where the magic comes alive. And and we can really enjoy the power of these interpersonal connections. And so the um the pieces to to understand, I guess, just out of our conversation today, that there's no bucket, not all these examples apply to everybody. Um, the the labels are so helpful in terms of gaining some awareness to this really important topic, but then knowing that you're different than my wife, my wife is different than my daughter, and every person listening to this is brings their own sense of self and how beautiful that is, how complex it is, and um how exciting it is to be able to learn more about ourselves and others through this type of conversation.
SPEAKER_01And what what a great way to end this episode. And if there were a few key words I would take away from what you've shared today, is awareness, curiosity, and honoring differences and intention as well. I really appreciate it when you were talking about intention uh rather than judgment and assumptions. So thank you so much uh for joining me today. And is there anywhere in particular that listeners can go to check out your work, your resources, your books?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you so much for this conversation. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. And if people would like to learn more about these books, uh they can find links to them on Amazon worldwide or most of the favorite online booksellers as well. I also have links to them on my website, which is exploringchanges.com. I like the term exploring changes. And again, um loving a highly sensitive person as well as um positive parenting solutions to raise a highly sensitive child are all available at online retailers as well.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. And I will put the links in the show notes for people so they can check them out easily. So thank you again for this wonderful conversation today.
SPEAKER_02It has been such a pleasure. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for joining me today on Highly Sensitive Humans. Make sure to visit my website, highly sensitivehumans.com, where I also offer one-to-one coaching for highly sensitive people, and a members area with monthly community meetings. You can also visit the Highly Sensitive Human Academy to find out more about upcoming online trainings, including a three-month professional training on how to coach highly sensitive people, and a three-month professional training on working with highly sensitive children. And if you found value in the show today, I'd really appreciate your rating. And you can also support the show by making a donation. Your donations are what enable the production of the podcast and enable the show to keep running.